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Thursday, July 23, 2009

Cumis responds to blog article




***CUMIS has responded to this blog article with a comment below***


"CUMIS’ practices are consistent with insurance industry standard practices in Canada. As with any life insurance company, CUMIS typically asks applicants seeking insurance on their mortgage loans to complete a brief questionnaire regarding their medical history.

Whether CUMIS asks for blood, urine and/or oral fluid samples is dependent upon the applicant’s responses to the health questionnaire; the applicant’s coverage history and the amount of coverage requested.

However, CUMIS does not collect hair samples, and has no plans to do so."

Respectfully,
The CUMIS Group Limited


** We appreciate Cumis weighing in on the matter, and for voicing there side of the story.**






Thursday.July.23.2009.
Column by – Marc Andre
The Northwest Herald

email for contact questions:
defendfreedomblog@hotmail.com
SASKATOON - It has become a first for Canadians and the implications can be astronomical, a massively large insurance firm; The CUMIS Group Limited Insurance who have been partnered along with thousands of 'credit unions' across North America for insurance requirements, has now accepted a policy of pre-screening drug tests & hair samples for the right to obtain home loan insurance, a necessity, if you’re going to purchase a home in Canada.
We first learned of this policy from a source who prefers to remain anonymous. The bank in question is called AFFINITY CREDIT UNION in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada; they are partnered with CUMIS insurance to offer home loan insurance.
This precedent setting policy from CUMIS & AFFINITY CREDIT UNION in Canada has now mandated that hair samples, urine drug testing, as well as a documented question and answer portion, (which our sources have indicated to be highly sensitive personal inquiries), will now be the norm for those apparently “high-risk” individuals.
We first learned of this story from a young man in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. Our source was instructed to undergo a rigorous pre-screening procedure in order to obtain insurance for his new home.
Our source stated that; "the bank (Affinity credit union) said that I should use the insurance company they provide to make things smoother, I never thought anything of it." "I don't really care if I get tested; it's just a hassle with my work schedule" said our source. Additional information gathered showed that our sources’ home value was approximately $300,000 when he applied for the loan – slightly above the average cost of a home in Canada, sitting at $287,000.
University of Saskatchewan, Professor William Buschert from the Department of Philosophy and Political Studies, says he is “surprised it is happening in Canada,” he also noted “from an ethical standpoint, it’s disturbing”. “The United States Government, got rid of this mandate in 2008, precisely because of the legal, moral, and privacy implications it presents… not to mention the selective way of ‘insuring’ one group of people and not the other. However, from the stance of the insurance companies, this ensures that they don’t get the “wrong” type of people”.
Professor Buschert also mentioned, playing devil’s advocate at times, that having this practice banned may create an unfair burden on the insurance companies and will ultimately create higher premium rates for the clients they serve.
When asked about the attitude of the general public regarding this issue of insurance companies gaining biometric samples for home loans, when some would say ‘what’s the harm, I have nothing to hide’, Professor Buschert responded with the following, “regardless of whether someone may have a ‘nothing to hide, so what's the harm’ attitude, it is obvious that this is an encroachment of individual freedoms, not to mention the privacy issues herein”.
We also contacted Saskatchewan Government Insurance Canada for comments, (they are a government agency who provides various types of insurance for western & central Canada; it is to be noted that SGI Canada is entirely separate from CUMIS) SGI Canada stated that; "we do not have a policy for drug testing for home insurance purposes."
We also reached the bank in question, AFFINITY CREDIT UNION in Saskatoon, sk, Canada. They commented that "High Risk" individuals may include those who purchase a home above 300,000 dollars".
When asked if AFFINITY CREDIT UNION were aware of their partner CUMIS, performing drug screening, hair samples, and a multitude of highly personal information for ‘high risk’ individuals seeking home insurance, they responded with the following, “CUMIS does conduct the necessary screening procedure for homes above 300,000 dollars.” And does that include hair samples and urine samples? “yes”.
When reached for comment a CUMIS representative stated that; “it is our policy to conduct drug screening for homes loans above 300,000 dollars, so we can protect that money somehow” they also stated that even if you answer ‘no’ to any questions on the health questionnaire you will still have to “provide a urine sample”. Interviewer: Are you aware of an executive order from Bush in 2008, disallowed CUMIS INS from gathering hair and urine samples, in the USA? They responded by saying. “well, were not in the states are we”. Indeed we are not, but the question remains, is it still ethically responsible, regardless of the location?


Upon further investigation, we have concluded that this issue has raised more questions than answers.
How long has this been going on? Are other insurance companies practicing this policy? Is this being documented? What is done with the biometric samples? Legal issues? Are the samples allowed to be sold to other insurance companies? Why is this not being reported in the mainstream media? Is the government going to do anything about it?
What makes this case interesting is that this was not an abnormally large mortgage value, and there were no indications that this individual was singled out for any reason. We are led to believe that this will be the norm from now on, until the public makes a fuss, we will all be forced to give up our freedoms for the greed of major corporations like Cumis Group Limited.
July 23, 2009.
The Northwest Herald

12 comments:

  1. Are they only serving the small banks or are we going to see this at TD, BMO, Royal, etc.

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  2. not sure; I can only confirm that it is happening with CUMIS insurance; and any bank that they are affiliated with.

    however, that being said, their is no reason to believe that without public awareness and outrage, they will be able to get away with this everywhere.

    interesting to note that every other country excluding a few exceptions in Europe. has banned the practice, deeming it a violation of human rights.

    Canada is one of the only places to adopt this new screening process.

    Ironically it was Bush who removed it from practice in 2008 in the United States. It is Ironic for obvious reasons.

    wonder why the CBC/ctv hasn't covered this?

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  3. they ask for urine samples for high priced life insurance? what's the big deal?

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  4. Urine samples? Wow. ...And my Canadian friends brag about how free things are in Saskatchewan. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I'll save my money and buy my land like a free man.

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  5. I think this is illegal in Ontario, so you might not ever see it happen there.

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  6. yes it can be legal anywhere in Canada at the moment.

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  7. Cumis is based out of Ontario at least that is where there switchboard is.

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  8. This is absolutely outragious. There is no corrolative relationship to a person's drug use and credit score. This is a blatantly discriminatory practice and I should hope that a credit union board member somewhere encourages the membership to sue their local credit union to bring this to the courts.

    If some one has excellent credit, has a habit of paying their bills on time, comes up with a down payment and is able to demonstrate financial stability, why on earth should CUMIS care if they smoke pot, inject heroin or do anything else? If a drug consumer can pay their bills, I don't see ohw their personal recreational habits are any of CUMIS's business.

    Again, there is no reliable corrolative relationship between some one's credit score and their choice to consume a drug. There is no credible reason for CUMIS to be asking this of applicants and it's a terrible violation of one's privacy.

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  9. Please note that your July 23, 2009 blog entry entitled ‘Canadian Banks now requiring urine and hair samples to obtain mortgage insurance?’ contains significant inaccuracies about The CUMIS Group Limited (CUMIS) and its practices.

    CUMIS is the leading provider of insurance services to Canadian credit unions, with roots in Canada dating back to 1937.

    CUMIS’ practices are consistent with insurance industry standard practices in Canada. As with any life insurance company, CUMIS typically asks applicants seeking insurance on their mortgage loans to complete a brief questionnaire regarding their medical history.

    Whether CUMIS asks for blood, urine and/or oral fluid samples is dependent upon the applicant’s responses to the health questionnaire; the applicant’s coverage history and the amount of coverage requested.

    However, CUMIS does not collect hair samples, and has no plans to do so.

    Respectfully,
    The CUMIS Group Limited

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  10. We appreciate your response to this blog.

    I will add an amendment to the article with your response.

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  11. I'm a libertarian. This is an issue of freedom of contract. If party B (ie. Joe Blow) wants to borrow money from party A (ie. Cumis), then party B will need to meet the requirements of party A.

    The only way this can become tryannical is of the State mandates this for all lending companies.

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  12. I, too, am a libertarian and I agree with Patrick.

    I also object to the rhetoric in the article, "… we will all be forced to give up our freedoms for the greed of major corporations like Cumis Group Limited." It would be force if you have no alternative, as with health insurance here in Canada.

    One alternative is to assign some existing life insurance policy to cover your mortgage. Another is to stop using drugs, if you think that is necessary to get the required life insurance. And maybe you should lose weight if you are at risk for diabetes. Or maybe you can find a mortgagor who doesn't require you to obtain life insurance and will be satisfied to take over your home if you should die before the mortgage is paid off.

    There seems to be two assumptions built into this article. First, the urine will be tested for drugs. Urine is normally tested for diabetes and maybe other diseases. Second, you will be denied coverage if they find you use drugs. Usually they simply charge a higher premium if they have reason to believe you will die earlier than most.

    Let's face it. When you ask a company to insure your life, they have a right to know how healthy you are. They might be willing to charge less if you don't smoke, drink or use drugs. They will want to charge more if you have diabetes or some other problem that can be detected in blood or urine samples. You assume that they are going to test your urine for cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, or whatever. My guess is they wouldn't pay for such testing unless they had evidence that drug use affects mortality rates. They certainly don’t care if you go to jail for drug use (or any other reason) since they only pay out if you die.

    Maybe you've never applied for $300,000 or more of life insurance. It is common practice to require a medical exam, which includes blood and urine tests. Get a grip!

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